What Your Real Estate Attorney Wishes You Knew | Rosemarie Young

0:00 So today I'm so excited. Welcome to Best Case, the podcast where we talk about finding your best case in real estate.
0:07 And today I'm so excited I have Rosemary Young on here. Uh she is an attorney who
0:12 I've actually done several deals with over the past couple of years. Um and I always find that you have the
0:20 best advice. Um you look out for your clients so well. So, I wanted to kind of get you in here, not really to do so
0:25 much real estate 101, but to just kind of talk about what we're seeing today and what's happening today in the
0:30 market. Yeah. Um, so I just kind of want to dive right in. And I know you and I spoke about this a few weeks ago. Yes.
0:38 Now that we are living in this kind of postNAR settlement world, one of the
0:44 questions I get asked all the time is about um when I'm working with a buyer, unrepresented buyers versus uh buyer
0:52 representation. And I'm curious from the attorney side what you think of it. Are you seeing an
0:58 uptick in unrepresented buyers in your business coming across your desk?
1:04 Well, first of all, thank you for having me. Oh, great to sit here with you. Um, we are
1:09 not seeing an uptick, but we do have more obviously than we've had before,
1:14 people that are unrepresented. And I am pro real estate agent all the way
1:20 because it makes our jobs harder. And that's not really the end of the world, but it makes it harder for the clients,
1:26 too. And I tell my buyers when they don't have an agent, you're you're not
1:32 ahead of the game. You're behind the eightball in a lot of ways. Um I have a client that is unrepresented
1:39 right now and they're about two weeks away from closing and asked the other attorney in
1:45 my office when they do their inspection. And I said, "Huh? You should have done that already." And he said, "Nobody told
1:52 me to." And I said, "I'm not an agent and neither is the other attorney." That you have to do that when you're not.
1:58 Yes. I said you get to do an inspection and you have to do it. I can't guide you with who to pick and when you should do
2:04 that because that's not something we normally do. So now he's scrambling to get that done. So that right there was
2:12 not fun. Um, I have other clients who are unrepresented and the seller is also
2:19 unrepresented and they went in, they had to sign this contract. They had to get it done because they were so afraid that
2:26 it was going to get put on the market. And post signing and as we go through
2:32 the inspection and things happen, they ask for certain um, credits for things and the seller says no. and they are
2:41 they're not backing out by any means, but they're second-guessing now and they're questioning themselves and
2:46 they're questioning their decision. And what I said to them was you have to realize that at the end of the day you
2:52 are getting a good deal because if it would if they would have been both of you would have been represented you
2:58 would have had a much higher price point to begin with because they would have uh
3:03 built in for that and then you didn't have to go through getting rejected
3:09 finding your you know your perfect house. So, yes, that's a positive, but now the negative is you I can negotiate
3:16 only as far as the attorney is going to let me. You don't have that extra padding where you have the agents and
3:22 you guys, that's what you're experienced with. Not that we can't negotiate because we do also, but you
3:28 have those relationships and you have the ability to make better decisions in that negotiating period than we do.
3:34 And I think that it just really hurts them to not have an agent. I also think that on the seller side when they don't
3:42 want to pay, I think that the buy when you're representing a buyer, every agent should be asking to make up the
3:47 difference in that commission with their buyer. I think that you guys sell yourself short in that sense because you are
3:52 working with these people for a year, two years to find them a house. You're driving them all over the place. And I
3:58 understand where, you know, people don't want to pay for that. But that is another thing I think you should
4:04 definitely make sure happens is that you guys get paid your full commission. Yeah. I actually um just did a deal
4:11 where um there was an unrepresented buyer who was part of the mix. There were several um clients or several
4:16 buyers who came in and um this one person um you know he does this all the time. So he actually really didn't need
4:23 an agent. He has all of the data that he needs. He knows exactly what he's doing. It really made sense for him to do this.
4:30 and it actually made his offer more competitive, not asking the seller to
4:35 pay that that amount. So, it net-wise, it was it was more attractive to the
4:41 seller. Um, I just wonder with other buyers who aren't who don't have that intel, is it
4:47 is it an ad value to them? Are they saving money and or not really if they just use you? At the end of the day, they're not saving any money because
4:54 they are going to go through things that would have been better handled if they had somebody else by their side meeting
5:01 an agent. I tell buyers when they come to me ahead of time, which is not always, but some
5:06 of them do. That is one thing I think everybody should do is talk to talk to agents, talk to attorneys before you
5:11 start buying to buy a house because you can learn things that you obviously you wouldn't know. I tell my buyers, I do
5:18 this every day. So, I'm going to say things that may just go right over your head and you're not understanding what.
5:24 Stop me and ask me. So, same with you. Yes, we do this every day and we've been in this business for a long time, but I
5:31 don't do what you do and you don't do what I do. You do a great job at what you do and I do a great job at what I
5:38 do. You do a great job at what you do. So, use the experts that you have. Use the agents for their knowledge. Use
5:44 them. You know, the the the neighborhoods. I if I don't live in that neighborhood, I don't know that
5:49 neighborhood. Yeah, I might have somebody I know lives there. I might have clients that bought there, but I don't live there. And so, you bring that
5:55 expertise to the table. You know, I had a client who was buying. She wanted to be in a quiet neighborhood. Well, she
6:01 bought a house on a main road. How is that quiet? Like a double yellow line. Yeah. And then says, "Oh, guess what? It
6:08 backs up to a a plant that tests helicopter blades." And then she was mad
6:15 that nobody disclosed that to her. Well, you have to do your own due diligence and you didn't have an agent to help you do that. How what did you think was
6:22 going to happen? I'm not going to do that. Not that you would have necessarily that, but you would have been able to give her more information
6:28 than I would because that's what you do, right? And how do you like inspections if they you were talking about
6:33 inspections before, do you have to go out and the inspector? I only went once because it was a friend of a friend
6:41 and they were a young couple that I care very much about and so I went. Anybody
6:47 else I that's I I don't say that's not my job but essentially I can't do that. I don't
6:52 have the time to do that. So then you're you're there's another step. If you have your agent with you when
6:57 you're doing the inspection again you've been to so many of them. You know what to look for. You know when something
7:03 doesn't seem right. I I yes, as a homeowner, I could tell you this is my experience or, you know, deals I've
7:09 seen, but I'm not at five inspections, you know, a month looking at these things. So, you get a better service
7:16 when you're dealing with an agent, right? And dollar for dollar, let's say the average commission is anywhere from
7:22 2 to 3% ballpark it. You don't think they're saving that by being unrepresented by using you?
7:28 Because does it go up to hourly fee or how does that work? Well, everyone's different. Everyone is different,
7:33 right? we have not incorporated that yet. So, fortunately for our clients when they're
7:39 not represented, they're getting the same fee as everybody else. And that's where and the the good thing
7:45 about me is I'm not then saying, "Well, you're only paying me this and I'm not going to do X, Y, and Z." I do it anyway
7:51 because I don't want to ever see anybody go through something and be stuck in something they shouldn't be, of course.
7:56 But I would think that most attorneys are going to charge hourly. I I can't see, especially if I start getting more,
8:02 I'm going to have to change that. There's no way. It's evolving. It's all And it's all evolving as this comes together. Is
8:08 there anything else since the settlement that you find has kind of changed in the
8:13 attorney industry and how you guys handle stuff? I I think that the challenges are when a buyer is paying a
8:21 broker fee, getting agents used to making sure we know that because there
8:26 are a lot of times where they don't tell us and then at the end of the day you have one and everybody's scrambling to
8:32 make sure that that works. So, it's little things like that. You know, again, with um buyers, I haven't represented a lot
8:39 of sellers that don't have agents. It's mostly the buyers. And again, it's it hasn't been a lot because I really
8:45 encourage people to work with someone and I and you could correct me if I'm wrong. They can't really look at a house
8:52 unrepresented, don't they? They have or they can't show a house. Exactly. I mean, they could they could they can
8:57 Yeah, they can once they come in then it becomes a whole paperwork dialogue. And I think everybody's working on their,
9:03 you know, dog and pony of presentation and how to kind of convince buyers. Here's what's best for you. Here are
9:09your options and here's what's best for you. And it I think at the end of the day it just kind of comes down to dollars and cents.
9:15 Yeah. At the I think that when you're in that position, especially in this market
9:21 and things that we're seeing, why would you not want as much expertise
9:26 as you could get to make sure that you're doing the right thing for you? I mean, how many times do people buy a house? And I think everybody to some
9:34 degree has a little bit of buyer's remorse afterwards. Just something tweaks you the wrong way and you think,
9:39 "Oh, why did I do this?" I would think it's compounded when you don't have that representation because you didn't have
9:46 anybody to ask and then you think, "Oh, did I make a mistake? What did I save here?" Nothing. Right. Right. Right. And are you
9:52 protected? Are you fully protected once you close? Did you check all the boxes and do all the due diligence you were
9:57 supposed to do because most attorneys aren't going to do that for you, right? They're really not. Right. Right.
10:03 Yeah. That's [clears throat] interesting. I mean, it's it was when we had this conversation a few weeks ago, it kind of a light bulb went off in my head and I
10:10 was like, you know, that's an that's a side that we haven't really talked about yet, how it affects the attorneys. And I did go
10:15 to my office and I said, I just had a really interesting conversation. And everyone was like, and I said, your
10:20 attorneys that you use, have you had this conversation with them? And they said, no. And I would think that, and I can't say
10:27 obviously, but I would think most attorneys when they see people are unrepresented, they cringe.
10:33 Yeah. Even if you're charging hourly, it it it doesn't pay. It doesn't pay. The amount of work that we have to do,
10:39 right, to compensate for not having you is huge, right? And I I don't think you could even if
10:45 you paid me $5,000 for a closing, I don't think I would want to do it. I mean, I do them obviously, but I just I
10:51 cringe. Yeah. And every attorney that I've talked to says the same thing. I had a a closing
10:56 with a that both sides were not represented and every time the attorney would call me. Thankfully, we got along
11:01 really well. He'd say, "Why are we doing this?" You know, because it's a pain in the neck. Right. Right. Because you guys are valuable.
11:07 [laughter] Period. Well, so are you guys. So, um you've definitely, you know, got us over the the goal many times. Um,
11:15 I want to talk to you a little bit about um, setting people up in terms of um, I
11:22 look at it as like not generational wealth, but when people are buying homes, a lot of buyers that I work with
11:27 are looking at them not just for the five-year plan, like a a starter home or something, they want to hang on to it as long as they can, and they want, if they
11:35 can hang on to it when they buy something else and rent it out or do whatever, they they they look into
11:40 different um, variations of doing at I want to talk to you about buying in different entities like an LLC, a trust.
11:49 Um I have done them a few times. Um but I'm not the pro at this and people ask
11:54 me, should I put this in a trust? Should I put this in an LLC? How do I do this? Right. Walk me through that.
12:00 Obviously, every situation's different and the facts and circumstances of every
12:05 situation will determine what's best. M what I would say is if you're a cash buyer buying for investment purposes,
12:13 absolutely put it in an LLC. Super easy to do. A lot of times I will
12:19 to offer to walk people through setting up an LLC so they don't have to pay that that fee, but a lot of times people just
12:26 you do it for me and that's okay too. Um, so that's a definite. The problem becomes with an LLC if you purchase it
12:32 and you have a mortgage and then you decide to move on and keep it and rent it, which I encourage everybody to do
12:38 because people think in their minds, I can't afford two mortgages and nobody's going to give me a second mortgage when
12:44 I have the first when that's not true. Because if you have the first and you have a tenant or you know that you can
12:50 get a tenant and you can say this is what the rent will be, that becomes an asset for you and you're
12:55 buying the second house because you're not going to be paying that. Yes, there's there's risk because if there's a time where the tenant leaves and
13:02 you're without a tenant for a month, can you afford to pay that? So, you obviously would have to plan financially
13:07 for that. But if you have a mortgage and then you want to put it in an LLC, that can be a problem
13:13 because the bank will not like that. When you have property in your name and
13:19 you would do a quick claim deed to put it in an LLC, the odds of the lender finding out 10 years down the road are
13:25 probably slim. But if they do, you're going to get a nasty letter that says you need to take it out and you need to
13:31 put it back in your name. And not to go off on a tangent on this, but [clears throat] the basic reason for
13:36 that is if you transfer the asset into an LLC and then you stop paying the
13:41 mortgage and they need to foreclose on you, they can't foreclose on your LLC. they have no right to because your LLC
13:47 did not take out the loan with them. And that goes true for when people add their spouse after the fact and try to
13:54 do that, too. It's the same concept. Yes, you can do that, but if the bank sees that and
13:59 they're going to tell you to put it back to just your name because if you don't pay, they can't foreclose on half a house, right?
14:04 And they can't foreclose on your wife, your partner, or whatever that is because they don't have legal standing
14:10 to do that, right? So, that's where the problem comes in. Mhm. I don't think in the mortgage deed it
14:15 does say if you do that they can call the loan which means they're cancelling your loan. They're taking, you know,
14:21 they want all their money back and you have to sell or get out. How banks don't want the house. So, do I
14:27 think that could happen? Yes, there's a possibility. But I think more often than not, they're going to try to get you to do the right thing and take it out of
14:33 the name you put it in and fix it before they go down that road. Right. Um the other problem with that could be
14:39 a title problem. If you have a title problem and now you have title insurance and it's in your name, but now the deed's in an LLC, is title insurance
14:45 going to cover you? I think they will also, but again, those are just things I explain to people, right?
14:50 So, the LLC is a great idea if you can do it and you take that little bit of a risk if you still have a mortgage.
14:57 Trusts are fantastic. I think that everybody should have them. Not
15:02 everybody would agree with that. Also, um Connecticut is a very will-based state and that's okay. Um, but I think
15:11 that trusts protect. There's two great myths out there right now because there
15:16 must be a lot of podcasts. There must be a lot of Tik Toks. There must be a lot of social media about having a trust because everybody's calling and asking
15:22 about this. Oh, really? And the two things they think are if I put my house in a trust, it's protected, right? And nobody can touch it. No,
15:29 that's not true. And the second is if you go to one of those estate planning seminars and they're standing up there
15:35 telling you put your house in a trust and or put all your assets in a trust and you don't have to go through probate. That is not accurate either.
15:42 Oh, everybody in the state of Connecticut has to go through probate whether you have a dollar to your name or a million
15:48 dollars to your name or hopefully 10 or more. Right. Um, the probate process, the point of it is to
15:55 take the asset out of the deceased person's name and put it into whoever the next person is supposed to be. Yeah.
16:02 Nobody can do that for the deceased person because they can't sign for them and they can't sign for themselves obviously,
16:07 right? Um, so when you have a revocable living trust, which is what most people need, you can
16:15 put the house in that trust. The bank cannot stop you. So now you don't have that problem if you have a mortgage
16:20 because there is a the St. Germaine Act that says you cannot stop me bank from
16:26 planning for my estate. So that they can let you do let you do when I explain that to people. I I
16:33 usually say think of a revocable living trust like an LLC. It's a pass through entity. So while you're alive and you're
16:38 capable, you are the grtor. You're the one putting this asset in, right? You're the grantee because you're receiving the
16:46 use and benefit of the asset and you're also the trustee. So, you make all the decisions. Typically, when it's a
16:52 revocable living trust, it's one or both spouses social security number. So, taxes are the same. Everything's the
16:58 same. Mhm. The benefit of that is while it doesn't protect them if they were to stop paying
17:03 or they had creditors or anything like that, when they leave the asset to their children, it is protected for their
17:10 children. And so a lot of times people will come in and say, "Do I need a trust?" And depending on the situation,
17:17 you may or you may not. My rule of thumb is if you have a house and you have some bank accounts and you have some, you
17:24 know, some savings and you have children, yes, you should have a trust for the sole reason that you can protect
17:29 it for them moving forward. When I had my kids, because I had them when I was
17:35 older, my thought was if I I mean, I'm older, so I have a higher risk of dying.
17:40 just because I'm older. If I died tomorrow, what are they going to do? I'm leaving these two kids with
17:47 nothing. I mean, and I have stuff, but how do they keep that protected? How does somebody help them? So, I have a
17:53 trust just for that reason that I know that my kids are set up so that it's protected for them.
17:59 If they get married and get divorced, nobody could touch that. If they rack up credit card debt and they can't pay it, nobody can touch that trust. So it it
18:06 becomes then once we set up the revocable trust, we then have a family meeting where I explain these things to them.
18:11 Um so a trust is a great idea. There is another type of trust which is an irrevocable trust that will protect you.
18:18 Nobody can touch that if you put your asset in there. But the difference is when you're doing that, you now lose
18:25 control. That's the whole point of it. It's not not only not in your name, but you cannot benefit. Technically, you're
18:32 not supposed to benefit from it, but if you're living there, you're benefiting from it, right? Um, but that is so that people can apply for title 19 if they
18:40 needed to or if they there was a fear of something creditor-wise that you can do
18:46 that, but then you have to worry about the people that you make your trustee because they could sell that asset out from underneath you if they wanted to.
18:52 So, that's one's a little tougher, but absolutely revocable living trusts, LLC's are great tools. Is a is a trustee
19:01 to a trust the same thing as like a member or an owner of an LLC? Is that the same kind of setup?
19:07 Essentially, yes. Can you walk me through that a little bit? So, when you're a member of an LLC, depending on if it's one member, two
19:14 members, let's just say it's a husband and wife. So, both would be members. Those two members
19:19 have the right to do whatever they want with that whatever that asset is in the LLC,
19:25 whatever goes in there. So they usually have an operating agreement that says we're both able to do X, Y, and Z. When
19:31 you do a trust, you have that same operating agreement. It's just called a trust document. And it says who can do
19:36 what and at what time. And then it also leaves who would come after me. So if I
19:41 can't do it, this is who would be in charge for me. So you leave the trustee if you are incapacitated or if you pass
19:47 away. Same with an LLC. That's not necessarily where you can set up I'm leaving it to this person, but then you can use
19:53 whatever trust or estate planning documents to make sure that the LLC goes where you want it to go, right?
19:59 Yeah. So, when John and Susie buy their house and they have two small children and they put in an offer in their name and
20:06 the mortgage mortgage is going to be in their name and it comes across your desk, is there at any point where you say,
20:12 "Hey guys, I think we should maybe shift here and change this or do you say it is?"
20:17 I do. Then what I do tell them is when we're at the closing is, hey, do you
20:23 have kids? Do you have an estate plan? And I talk to them about it then and I get the wheels spinning and then
20:29 hopefully and usually people will come back and either ask me what to do and then I work with them or, you know, they
20:35 find somebody else that knows estate planning and work with them. So I would love for them to come back to me, but
20:40 that doesn't always happen. All right, which I understand. And a lot of people will say, "You do real estate.
20:46 I want to go to somebody who does estate planning. I do both, but I don't do estate planning every day like some of
20:52 the attorneys do. And sometimes I do say, "You're a little too complicated for me. You should go talk to this
20:59 person instead because I don't do it on a regular basis like I do real estate."
21:04 Right? I feel like it's all kind of part and parcel, right? It's all you kind of want it all in the event something
21:10 happens, you kind of want it all in one place in one pot. And that's the other thing, the benefit of a trust is you say
21:18 to your kids, "Hey, god forbid something happens to me. There's a a binder, there's a box, there's an envelope with
21:24 everything in it, and you just get that and you'll know everything." It's that planning process that really helps
21:29 people get everything together because we get calls every week from a spouse
21:35 whose spouse passed away and they don't know what they had. Did they have life insurance? Did they have 401k? They
21:42 don't know anything. And so it becomes a nightmare for people to have to go through that process. And it's it it's
21:48 harder for us too to help you because you don't know. So it even if it's not a trust, you should have everybody should
21:54 have some sort of estate plan in in play, right? It's very helpful. That's a really good point.
22:00 Um, one of the things you mentioned earlier that I get asked about a lot is tenants. Yes. Oh, good one.
22:05 Oh, people are always like, I want to buy this and I want to rent it out. How quickly can I find a tenant and what's it like being a landlord? It's different
22:12 for everyone. You go what like what is it that you see from the from that side? Because I've
22:18 heard some wild stories. I've actually always said I think I think tenants are like the most protected class.
22:24 Oh, absolutely. Anywhere. Like if you want the most protection, be a tenant. And you are you're solid.
22:30 Get away with whatever they want. Yeah. Yeah. Which is fortunate and unfortunate, right? Um and and and it makes sense in
22:37 some ways, but a lot of ways they really in this state hurt landlords when like when COVID happened.
22:43 Right. Right. You know, they didn't make people pay their rent. And some of the people that I would talk to, their thinking was,
22:50 well, if you're a landlord and you can afford to have an investment property, you should be able to afford to pay the mortgage. Okay. But not everybody's like
22:57 that. I became a landlord and I didn't want to. It just happened because I had bought my first house in 2004 at the
23:04 height of the market and then the market crashed in 2008 and when I needed to sell it in 2010, it was
23:11 $100,000 underwater from what I bought it for. And I could have still sold it and taken
23:18 the loss, but in my mind I that was my hard work earned money. I'm not going to take that loss. Right?
23:24 So that's how I became a landlord. And and that's how I learned, oh, you can get a second mortgage because you have
23:30 this tenant now that's coming in and they don't they look at your investment property as an asset, not a not a
23:36 liability. Exactly. So, and I tell a lot of people that story to encourage like when you have
23:41 first-time buyers and they're like, "It's not going to be our forever home." I go, "It should be." Yeah. You should make it your forever home in
23:46 the sense that someday you're going to move on, but you're going to keep it and you're going to rent it. Oh, yeah. So, I I lit up when you said
23:53 tenants because my biggest thing is when you as a an agent are selling a property
23:59 with tenants. There are times when we get to the week before closing and we
24:05 never know that there are tenants there. Somebody will say, "Oh, what about the tenants?" And I say, "What what
24:10 what how do we not know this?" So, not to change gears, but my biggest piece of advice when putting together a contract
24:17 with tenants is to put it on the contract there are that there are tenants and do the tenant rider. I've never done that. I've never done
24:23 that. Most agents say that and so if you tell me there are tenants, then I will say to
24:28 you, here's what we have to do and I walk you through that. I guess I feel like the lease is something between the landlord and the
24:33 tenant and I have no part in that. I I mean, what's my claim to that? And I'll take the landlord's word or
24:40 and so that's where the problems 15th. That's what where the big problems come in, right?
24:45 When you go to close and you're telling not you, but the the owner is telling me
24:51 this is what the rent is. This is what the security deposit is. I'm taking their word for it. Yes, sometimes they
24:56 have a lease, but I'll tell you what happened there recently. I don't know if that lease is legitimate. I I never questioned it
25:03 until something just happened recently. We did a closing in May of this year. It
25:10 might have been earlier, but in this year and I asked I knew there were
25:15 tenants. I asked the agent if she had copies of the leases. She said yes. The client is
25:20 fantastic. He helped two. They give me these two leases. So, we adjust the
25:27 security deposit and the rent based on what's in the lease. It said there was a $1,500 security deposit.
25:34 So, we close. Everything's fine. About two weeks ago, I get a not so nice email
25:39 from the other attorney saying that the tenants's moving out and saying she didn't have $1,500 in her security. She
25:44 had 3,000. And what funny about that is that recently I've started using what they
25:51 call a stopple letters. That what happens there is the tenant has to sign and the landlord
25:56 has to sign this document that says this is what my rent is and this is what the security deposit is.
26:01 Not every attorney requires them. the ones who do, that's where it makes you think. And and so again, in this case, I
26:08 didn't say that we were going to provide those. The other attorney didn't require them, and we had the leases, so really
26:13 there was no reason. The buyer's attorney had these receipts that showed
26:19 that she paid $1,500 and then another $1,500, but they were handwritten, you know, those little receipts, right? And
26:25 I said to him, "Listen, we adjusted based on this lease, and I see you have that. And I'm not saying your tenant is
26:31 or your client's lying, but how do we know that that's legitimate? I have the signed lease. That's legitimate. Well,
26:39 couple days go by and I was just trying to get in touch with my client and he finally calls me back and he says,
26:45 "Um, I think I owe her more money." I said, "Why?" And he said, "I think I do have a three." I said, "What do you mean
26:51 you think?" And I said, "On the lease it says $1,500 and if she signed that and didn't make that change and you know,
26:58 not shame on her, but shame on her. She signed it, right? And he goes, "That's the renewal lease.
27:03 The original lease says $3,000."
27:08 Why? Why would Why it be why it would be different? I don't know. Right. But okay. Why didn't you say that then?
27:15 So I said, "Okay, you need to get He goes, I need to give her the money." I go, "Yes, you need to give her the money." Yeah. So that right there,
27:21 right? It's like if you're a landlord, you need to know these things. You need to stay
27:27 on top of these things and what you're signing and what you're sending out. I mean, for me with my tenants, I send
27:33 them the same lease to sign that I did. I literally changed the signature page and send it to them to e-sign. Nothing
27:39 changes, right? It shouldn't change, right? So, I do think that there are a lot of people who are afraid to be a landlord.
27:45 I don't think it should be scary. Yeah, you have we all you I'm sure you could hear a ton of horror stories. I had a tenant that
27:51 left left a mess and then when I kept their deposit, he literally called and said, "Oh, why didn't you tell me these
27:58 things were wrong? I would have come back and fixed them." Um, that's not how it works, sir. Right. You have to fix it before you go. Not
28:04 you don't get a second chance. I ended up giving him some of it back because I just didn't want to deal with the headache. But,
28:10 you know, you have to be aware that there are those people out there. But then you get a good tenant like I have now. I haven't raised You're going to
28:17 yell at me, but I haven't raised the rent in 10 years because they are so good. Yeah. And that's kind of like worth its
28:23 weight and gold. It really is. Yeah. They never call me. Things are broken. They try to fix It. If it they can't,
28:28 they call me. But I think if they've called me three times once the air conditioning went and I had to replace the union unit. That makes sense, right?
28:35 Um but recently they bought a new refrigerator and they just text me a picture of it. And I said, "Oh, tell me what that cost to take it off the rent."
28:41 And they said, "Absolutely not. You've never raised the rent. Like we're not we're paying for this." I was like, "Okay, if it works out, Ter good people." And
28:49 yeah, and then you look at it. I'm very I thought about it also. I bought that in 2020 or 2004. It's now 2026. I'm almost
28:57 paid off, right? So now if my kids want to live there when these tenants leave, I have a place
29:03 for them. They're still going to have to pay rent, but now I don't have to cover a mortgage. So I can help them out. Yeah. if I need to live there, you know,
29:10 you know, whatever happens, it's now whatever comes in off that is just income to me once that's paid off,
29:15 right? So, you never think of it like that, but really long term, it's I think one of the best investments that people can
29:21 make. Yep. It's going to go up and down, but it's going to go up. You just got to wait. if you've got someone who can carry those
29:26 charges. I've got a couple people um um I have actually one older couple, they're downsizing it and they hung out
29:32 to they hung on to their first apartment in New York, their little studio, and they've held on to it this entire time.
29:38 They're empty nesters now and they're moving back into their apartment. Wow. Isn't that perfect? That's amazing. It's like
29:45 hopefully not finishing, but you know, going back Yeah. Going Exactly. going back to where you started. Exactly. Going back to where it all
29:51 began. Yeah. Um, and I have someone else who um just sold their apartment that they had their
29:57 starter apartment and it's going to cover college tuition. It's amazing. I mean, you look at the clients we just worked with.
30:03 You're buying a house in Westport. That's never going to be a a negative ever. We live in Connecticut. Westport's
30:10 one of the most sought-after towns to live in, right? Even if the market crashes, which I don't think it ever will, or I don't not
30:15 ever, but I don't think it will anytime soon. But that's huge for them, right? You know, and hopefully they just keep
30:21 growing and they move on and keep that. It's just that's a huge asset for them.
30:26 That's the goal. I mean, I think that that's the goal. I think with anyone who can do it and when people ask me about tenants, I I cringe a little bit
30:33 because, you know, I hear a lot of horror stories and I've seen some stuff. Um, but yeah, if it can cover your
30:38 mortgage. Yeah, it depends on where you're buying too, right? And that's a tough one because a lot of times the cities are
30:45 the place to buy for rentals, but that's where you could end up getting somebody that, you know, is not the best tenant,
30:51 right? So, you have to think about that, too, right? Somebody told me when I was buying my first house to buy a two family and I
30:58 thought, "Oh, why do I want that for my first house? I got to deal with somebody else's cooking smells, you know, like
31:03 you think of all those things. They're garbage. They're and then I have to hear them and I don't want that." That was
31:09 the probably the best piece of advice somebody gave me that I didn't take because when you think about it, you do that, they're paying your mortgage
31:17 because hopefully the rent covers the whole mortgage. So now you're living mortgage free. Yeah.
31:22 And you're saving that every month. So then when you're ready, you now buy something and you rent both sides. And
31:27 now it just it just keeps going. It just keeps going. Compounds. Yeah. Just to circle back to your generational
31:32 wealth. That's I mean if you look at people who are able to who started young
31:37 and are able to provide that for their kids, it's a lot of it is real estate. Yeah. Pieces that they've hung on to
31:44 even in the downturn. Even in the downturn if they can if you can do it if you can do it,
31:49 you know, it's it's it's the best thing. Yeah. Um and then you put it in an LLC and you
31:54 protect it. So then, you know, god forbid something does happen, unless you do something
32:01 on purpose, they can't p uh pierce the corporate veil, as they say, and get through to you personally with an LLC.
32:08 Oh, so very nice. Yeah, that's good to know. Yeah, that's good to know. I mean, you have to really do something willfully, as they
32:15 say, negligently on purpose, like a tax thing, like some kind of tax,
32:21 Knowing that there's a a huge safety hazard and doing absolutely nothing about it, right? You know, something like that, which
32:26 again, if you're just a kind human, you don't want your tenants to get hurt, so you're going to
32:33 fix what you can. Yeah. I I rented a house a few years ago and um the landlords were lovely, really
32:39 lovely and it all worked out great, but the the lease was so boilerplate and so
32:45 blah and this was like a few uh weeks if not like two months before co happened
32:51 and they were great through the whole thing. Um and it was, you know, I could
32:56 see how someone could take advantage of that situation completely. Yep. Um,
33:02 I just thought of something that I think is really good going back to our NAR conversation. Oh, yeah. Because this is a good one. This just happened.
33:08 Oh. Um, it I full disclosure, they're not unrepresented, but if they were,
33:16 they had a buyer. They're the sellers. My sellers. They had a buyer.
33:21 Buyer did an inspection. Inspection was fine. Buyer didn't ask for anything. Inspection wasn't fine, but buyer didn't ask for anything. There
33:28 were no red flags. Mhm. Deal fell apart. They get another buyer. Buyer does an inspection this week and I
33:36 get a text from the agent that says, "Um, they're saying that there's something wrong with the hot water heater and they're red tagging it."
33:43 What? And they're shutting it down. I'm like, I never heard I mean, I've heard of that, but I've never I said, "Okay, how can that be? They We just did
33:51 an inspection a month ago, and they said nothing about that. This is weird to me." Okay. the t the client happens to
33:58 live out of state. So, it was like a multiple of issues. So, she doesn't know who to call. I
34:05 wasn't thinking at the time of referring anybody cuz things were going on. So, they just called randomly. I'm sure the
34:11 gentleman who came out didn't did know they were out of state, did know they were selling, and did know that they
34:18 were two women and didn't know, not didn't know anything, but didn't really know what they were talking about when
34:24 it came to a boiler and a hot water heater like most of us. They're really not boots on the ground. They don't know. The next call is we need a whole new
34:30 boiler and a hot water heater for $18,000. And I said, "Okay, I don't want to be
34:36 the one to stir the pot, and I know you're very stressed right now and make this worse, but worse, but that can't be possible. That's a scam. That has to be
34:44 a scam, right? You need to get somebody else in there." And they were they were ready to just pay the $18,000 and let this guy do what
34:50 he was going to do so that they could sell this house. I said, "Please." And then I remembered the company that
34:56 did my HVAC at my investment property. I said, "Please just call these people because they're really nice." They did.
35:03 The guy came out Tuesday and said, "I fixed it. It was like something with the
35:09 hot water heater that needed a part that he put in. He cleaned the I don't know anything about this stuff
35:14 either. The flaps, whatever." He goes, "Yeah." "Do you need a new boiler?" "Yes." "Do you need it today?" "No."
35:20 "Did you need to hot or red tag your hot water heater?" "No." "And it cost them a couple hundred."
35:25 So, think about that. If you didn't have an agent, you would never have you would have
35:31 spent $18,000. Yeah. Just to close the deal. Yep. Yeah. That's a good point. Sorry, this came into my head when we
35:38 were talking about tenants cuz there was a tenant there. And then they asked me, if we have no hot water, do we have to
35:43 compensate the tenant for rent? Do we have to pay for them to live in a hotel? And honestly, I didn't know the answer
35:49 to that. I said, I've never had that. You think the answer would be yes. It's yes and no. So, if it's something
35:54 that you can fix within 24 to 48 hours, then you would not have to compensate
36:00 them in any way. If it goes beyond that, then you would be responsible. If they needed to get a hotel, you could have to
36:05 pay for that, right? Um or you could pay for somehow. I don't know how you would get them hot water. It doesn't really make sense. I would
36:11 just say live in a hotel, right? But yeah. Right. So, yeah, that's a pitfall when you have a tenant. But again, everything can be
36:18 worked out, right? Yes. And don't use a boilerplate lease. I do tell my clients when they're buying and
36:23 they are going to going to rent and it's disclo you know it's that's what we're doing. I said when you're ready to do a lease
36:30 call me because I have a really good lease and you could you know I'll give it to you. Is it a Connecticut state lease or is it
36:36 a your company lease? Connecticut. It's the one that I used for my own tenants that I got from a lawyer who did this
36:43 every day. And cuz I never did um evictions or anything like that. And so I asked this attorney for an ironclad
36:49 lease and he gave me one. And and it's not ironclad where it it's a detriment to
36:55 the tenant. It is very landlord pro, but it's it's fair on both sides,
37:00 right? But at least you know everything you need is in there, right? You don't you're not missing anything. And so I'm
37:06 happy to give it to people. You know, you just did a closing with me. Giving you a lease is not the end of the world.
37:12 Right. Exactly. Um, speaking of paperwork, um, so in Connecticut, we have everything from, uh, when you're
37:18 doing an offer, we have binders, which I always say if you ask for attorneys, two will say it's binding and two will say
37:24 it's not. You have contracts. You have towns like Greenwich where they just kind of do these memorandum. I call it
37:30 the wild west. It's like doing deals on cocktail napkins being like, I will you. No one signs anything, but suddenly, you
37:36 know, they're doing inspections. And everybody does it differently. And I know there are some attorneys who insist
37:41 on contracts at the beginning, some who insist on binders. Everybody's different. What do you think is the best
37:47 one and why? Oh, it it really again, unfortunately, it
37:52 depends on the circumstances. A lot of times, the realtor contract that you guys use is fine. Mhm.
38:00 Are there situations where I wish we went to formal contracts? Yes. But there's really not a lot in the formal
38:06 contracts that's not in the realtor contract. There's no liability for a delayed closing in the realtor contract.
38:13 There is one in the formal contracts, but when I'm the buyer, I take that out of the formal contracts when I'm
38:20 representing a buyer because Oh, so there should be So they're protected if there is a delay on the seller end, right? And and even then they're
38:26 protected because if you think about it in most cases who delays the closing? It's the buyer. It's not it's yes it can
38:31 be the seller but a lot of times that's something that came out of the blue or you know or we know they're going to have to delay closing right but usually
38:38 it's the buyer for whatever reason their underwriter or their mortgage company isn't the best. They didn't pick a good
38:44 one and you know they are dragging their feet. So I take that out. So then that's why I
38:50 say the realtor contract is fine. Um, there are a few other things that I can't think
38:56 of. We just I just did a closing where we used it and the attorney made me put in I was the seller. The buyer's
39:02 attorney made me put something in there and I was fine with it. But I'm like, "Oh, that was a good thought." And of course, I can't remember what it was.
39:08 But was it like the review period? I know that they always ask me, "Do we have like an attorney review? If we sign this, do we have an attorney?" That's in
39:15 there. That's in your realtor contract. That's not in It's not in the formal contracts because we're drafting the formal
39:21 contract. So, you don't need that, right? Um, but I do like that and that's a lot of times why I say stick with that
39:26 one because there's that five and it's five business days. So, it could end up being, you know, a week and a half in
39:32 some cases. It could it could protect either it could protect or hinder. I find, right? Like it who who benefits the most from
39:38 it? I think maybe the seller, but also the buyer, but you know, it gives everyone a little, you know,
39:44 the good thing with it is I don't have to tell you why. So, if you get a buyer who has that buyer's remorse and says,
39:50 "Oh, I changed my mind. and I don't want this house. I can literally get you out in that 5day review period. I don't have to tell the other attorney why. So,
39:56 that's helpful. I haven't had that a lot. It doesn't help people if they get a better offer, which I'm sure you've been
40:03 asked before once you already signed a contract and then you get a better offer and they want to take that. That's never
40:09 a good that never ends well, right? Um, so it doesn't get you out of that if you're the seller. Um, I think if you're
40:17 the I really that's a tough one. And I don't I think both are fine.
40:22 Y um honestly I prefer the realtor contract a lot of times because it's just easier
40:29 from a time perspective, right? It's less it's not less work. It just makes thing go things go faster. But one
40:36 thing I do try to do, which I don't always have time to, but when you send me a contract,
40:44 usually it's the realtor contract, I like to call the agent once I get that contract and just go through it with
40:49 them to make sure we're not missing things like tenants and we're not missing I'm not missing a
40:55 big piece of the puzzle like the seller needs to stay 10 days after, you know, because a lot of times we don't get that
41:00 till it's too late, right? Um, so it's not always feasible to do. Um, and you you know when it's you, I
41:07 talk to you, so I know a lot of the stuff and I know you know what you're doing, so I don't ever miss any of the
41:12 picture when it's when I'm working with you. Um, and a lot of agents have learned over time the things to make
41:18 sure they put in there, right? Um, so that helps, right? Speaking of jumping contracts, how often
41:25 do you see that happen? How often do you see like a seller who's got a deal in hand and somebody comes along? As
41:31 agents, we have to present all offers up to closing. something really amazing comes along. Maybe they don't love the
41:36 deal they have, but here it is. Yeah. What happens? I've only had it happen twice.
41:42 That's it. Honestly, yes. I've had it happen twice where they're in a contract already,
41:47 even if it's just in the first week or so, right? And then they want and it never it has not gone well for either
41:54 either seller. They ended up staying in the first contract. You talked them out of it. I didn't talk them out. Oh, well, I did
41:59 end up talking them out of it because it always seemed to be the attorney on the other side was one of those attorneys who was not going to let it go,
42:06 right? And so I you run the risk of getting sued. And who the problem with that is I
42:12 always say to my sellers when I'm doing the formal contract when we get to the default section, I say, "Okay, if you default and you decide you're not
42:19 going to sell it to them, as long as you're not turning around and selling it to somebody else the next day, what are they going to sue you for?" Right?
42:25 They're going to pay $3,000 to sue you to get $3,000. It doesn't make sense, right? So, I usually will say when you're the
42:32 seller, what are they going to sue you for? But in this case, in both these cases, they wanted to sell to somebody
42:38 else and the buyers could have held the house up in court forever and you wouldn't have been able to sell it. Oh, put like a lean on it. Yeah. Talk to
42:45 me about suing because I have so many clients who are like, "We don't want to get sued for this, you know, I I'm going
42:50 to sue the seller. I'm going to sue the inspector." A lot of that talk happens, you know, and it doesn't always, at
42:55 least from what I've seen, it doesn't always go through. It doesn't. But there is a lot of I'm going to sue sue. I'm calling my attorney. I'm going
43:00 to sue them. I hear that a lot. Do you get a lot of calls? I do. I get a lot of calls after the
43:06 fact where the buyer says, "Oh, I found this and I want to go back to the seller." And unfortunately, I have the
43:12 same conversation with every buyer. And again, it depends on what it is. But most of the time, my conversation goes
43:19 like this. You're going to spend $3 to $5,000 to sue them. The biggest piece
43:25 you need to know is you have to be able to prove that they knew this problem existed. And that's not easy. You may
43:32 think it's easy, but it's not. But let's just say it is easy and you can prove it.
43:37 You sue them, you win. Now you have to collect. That does not happen. Like people think,
43:43 "Oh, I sue you. I win and I get money like that." It doesn't work like that because if you have a you have the
43:49 seller that says, "I should have won and I'm not going to pay this money." they could hide forever and you never get a
43:56 dime of that money, right? So, what I tell people is if it's going to cost you $5,000, take the $5,000, fix
44:02 the problem, and make this house what you want it to be, and move on with your life. And a lot of people take that advice
44:07 because I think that's the piece people don't realize. Just because you win doesn't mean you get paid.
44:13 Because that's true. What if they don't have the money? What if they don't have the five $10,000 to
44:19 pay for whatever you need them to? What are you going to do? You can't get blood from a stone or just
44:26 move on. Yeah. It doesn't matter. You can do all that, but if they don't have it. So then what would happen is you would have to pay to
44:32 have a wage garnishment done. Not that easy. You would have to pay some a marshall to go to every bank in the area
44:40 to serve papers to see if they have an account there. By the time you do that, the money's out of that account and they've moved it to somewhere else if
44:47 you're working with somebody who's trying to prevent paying you. Right. Right. Right. Um, of course you would hope that people would just do the
44:53 right thing and if they got sued and they lost, they would pay. But instead of evading everything,
44:58 it doesn't work that way. Wow. I haven't heard of a lot of lawsuits. I've heard of a few. Yeah. Most of my clients
45:04 and they go on and on and on and on. Yeah. I have had people where I say, "You have
45:09 a really good case, but again, think about the stress and the risk of going
45:14 through all that. Is it really worth it? You have kids. You have your life. Do you really want to go through this?"
45:20 Yes. There are some times where it's worth it, but right what seems so obvious is actually
45:25 exhausting and inordinately expensive. Absolutely. And that's what people don't realize. Right.
45:30 I had a client who bought a house in a tax sale. A tax auction is probably the only way
45:38 you can buy property in this state without an attorney, which I do not understand. Oh, right. But that's mostly builders. I
45:45 mean, do you see a lot of people doing that? Most builder, actually. And so he bought this house and he did what he did to it,
45:51 which was fantastic, and then went to sell it. And there was a huge title problem that he had to
45:59 do what they call a quiet title action that I referred them to an attorney that I highly respect and will send everybody
46:06 to if they have this issue or a similar issue. And you know, he says, "Oh, it could be 3,000. It could be 5,000."
46:12 Well, it was almost 10,000. That's not his fault. It's just the time in the court, the travel, you know, be going to
46:17 court and doing all this. Um, if I remember correctly, what it So, if
46:22 you're not using an attorney when you're buying, which this is the only way you can get away with that, um, or I don't mean get away with that,
46:27 but have this happen. He didn't do a title search. So, yeah. And even if he did, he which you
46:35 can do yourself, you could go down to the town hall. You can look at everything, but you're not going to know
46:41 what to look for and what would cause a title problem, right? In this case, it was something so small
46:48 like when the woman who bought it, somebody didn't sign something and like
46:55 I think I would catch that because but even an attorney who does real estate might not catch that at first. If you're
47:01 looking on your own, if your title searcher does it, then it should he'll alert you to that. But it could be easily missed. And so,
47:09 you know, the person who was foreclosed on in a tax sale is not going to help you, right? So,
47:14 right, it's not easy, right? Oh, so yeah, when you go back and back and you got easements and
47:21 agreements on paper and Yeah, it can get a little fuzzy. Yeah. In in a long-term house, how but you can
47:26 buy an you can buy a house in other states without attorneys. Yes. A lot of states, I think we're one
47:32 of six states that require attorneys. New York, I know, does. Yeah. They use title companies, which that's
47:38 good, right? Because they're attorneys at the title companies at the end of the day for the most part. And most states require some type of
47:44 title insurance. And if that's who's doing your closing, that's what you want, you know. So, I will tell people when
47:51 there is a title problem or there's something that's fishy on title, I'll say, "Well, I'll put bring it to my title company because that's who's going
47:58 to insure you." and you want them to bless this. So, as long as they bless it, you're good. Right. So, yeah. So, title states aren't or
48:05 states where they use title companies is not a horrible thing. It's that piece that you're
48:10 missing with a second set of eyes, right? Just like when the buyers are not using an agent. You're missing that
48:17 huge piece of not having a second set of eyes of somebody who does this every day, right? And knows what Yeah. Yeah.
48:23 Well, that's I mean, I think the attorneys are fantastic. And um That's right. You guys catch a lot that we
48:29 don't see. Yeah. And but how would you you know that's Right. Right. The one thing that I think that a lot of
48:35 agents should be more mindful of is and I and I
48:42 curious as to how you guys do it. Um when you're going to list a property,
48:48 most agents look at the tax records to see who the title is in, but then do you also look on the land records to see
48:55 who's on title? Some do, some don't. And do you have to? Is that I don't think
49:00 it's required of you to do that. I don't think it's required. I do it, but I don't think it's required. I think it's just information to have. It's just
49:06 more information to have. Yeah. Yeah. Because then you you you save yourself and the clients a a step
49:13 where you have that widow whose husband died 20 years ago. Yes. And doesn't think to tell you, "Oh, my
49:20 husband's still on the deed and I never went to probate." Right. And I can't tell you how many times I get a title
49:26 search and I say, "Who's the second person?" And then you call the client. "Oh, that's my dead husband. That's my dead wife." "Oh, did you probate?" "No."
49:32 "Oh, well, now you think about when the title search comes to me as the seller's attorney." It's not till maybe two weeks
49:39 before the closing. And now you got to figure that out to see whose names are. I That's actually the very first thing I do.
49:45 I don't understand why everybody does it. I get nervous. What if I'm meeting with the wrong person when I'm pitching today with all the fraud? How do you
49:51 know that that's who you're dealing with? Or you're meeting with one person who's not a decision maker and you're, you know, and they're like, here's what I
49:57 want to do. And it sounds great until you realize, wait, this person has no control here. This is not the person.
50:03 So, what's it my boss always says, you know, always ask them like, is the higher authority or whoever going to be
50:09 there? We need the all parties here just so that everyone has the same information at the same time. And it's
50:14 true. Yeah. Because, you know, there's a lot of people making calls who have no business
50:20 doing that. And if you listen to them, you could get into serious serious trouble. And that and I think that in our
50:25 society, while we do realize there's a lot of fraud, I think a lot of people are very
50:32 uh willing to to believe somebody. I don't want to say naive, but like you you're with somebody who's presenting
50:38 themselves as knowing everything and being the person who owns the house and so you believe them, right?
50:43 But that's not always the case. I know that's happened. That has happened. That has happened. Not in a fraudulent way. just maybe a family
50:49 member who has no no um no place saying anything really. Just
50:55 being like, "I love it. I love the house." That's really all they should say. I had a great time here growing up, you know. Um that's it.
51:00 Yeah. Um what else? I mean, you've covered a lot of this, but what what else do you find kind of derails a deal? I find
51:08 communication is just like the big thing that's like if we had only known this or if we only the little details, right?
51:15 And they may, again, they may seem so seem so small. Yeah. They mean so much,
51:20 right? My favorite is when an agent says, "Oh, probate's already done." I never, and no disrespect, a lot of times
51:28 they don't know what that means, right? You know, right? I could say a lot of things, but
51:36 was laughing. He's like, "Say it." I had one agent say, "Um, probate's already done." And I said, "No, it's
51:42 not." I was I was the buyer. She represented the seller and she said, "Probate's already done." I said, "It's
51:48 not." And yes, it is. So, I tell my agent, "We need the release of leans." And the other agent says, "There are no
51:55 leans on the property. There are no leans. We don't need that. That's not what that's for. That's not what that
52:00 means." Like, it just I was like, "Really?" I get, again, I get that I do this every day from a legal perspective,
52:06 and you guys don't, but how are you doing closings when you don't even know what a release of leans is from the probate court? It's saying you don't owe
52:13 any estate taxes. It just and it says you went through probate. The only way the probate court can get their hooks
52:18 into you is through your property by putting a lean on it. So obvious they're not putting a lean on it. They're saying
52:24 they don't owe any estate taxes. There will be no leans. That's what it says for the most part.
52:29 Not that it's like your neighbor saying their tree touched my property and blah blah blah. It's just things like that. You know, kids are allowed at the pool.
52:35 I love when agents are like, "Oh yeah, we're clear to close. We're closing tomorrow." Oh, who scheduled that?
52:40 Because that's not, you know, the attorneys have to schedule it, right? I always say I'm the last to
52:46 know. Like, tell me last. Tell me last because it doesn't matter what I say. I'm not the signer. I'm not the person
52:53 giving you the authority to do anything. So, you tell me. I have one right now where the other the the buyer's agent keeps telling my
53:00 listing agent, "We're closing tomorrow. We're closing tomorrow." And I keep I feel bad. I'm beating my agent up because they said, "Listen, first of
53:06 all, it's not clear to close. At least nobody's told me that. I've asked and they've not answered. I said, "Number
53:11 one." Number two, I know this attorney and even if it becomes clear to close today, he's not closing it tomorrow.
53:16 It'll close next week. Right. I said, "And and no disrespect to anybody. I'm just telling you that's how that's going to go." Yeah. And he Well,
53:23 they're going to do the walkthrough today. I said, "Well, they can, but we're not closing tomorrow." I don't understand why because she doesn't or he
53:30 doesn't schedule the closing. The attorney has to. And then when they say, "Well, can we close tomorrow?" Docs have
53:35 to get done. The bank has to do their part. Like it's not that easy. Sometimes we do it. We have to. And you know
53:41 I get a lot of my poor paralegal, are you really going to make me do this? Yes, we have to close tomorrow. You
53:47 know, we'll do it. It's not fun. But in this case, there was no The contract closing date is the 31st. Like there's no sense of
53:53 urgency here. So it just Yeah, I'm the last person in the line. Like I'm I am like the final frontier over
54:00 here. So like it all has to come down from you guys. It all has to trickle down. And then I you know
54:05 and a lot of times what I'm trying to explain to people it's just the process you know once it becomes clear to close
54:12 the bank tells me this is when we can close because they have a dead deadline too. They may say we're clear to close
54:18 but our first available closing date isn't until Tuesday right you know even if the contract closing date's Monday
54:25 they say Tuesday. Then I go to the other attorney and say okay the bank wants to close Tuesday. Can you close Tuesday and
54:31 your seller before I even ask my buyer? They have to say yes first and then I ask the buyers if that works, right?
54:37 Because if it doesn't work for them, it's easier to change everybody else later than it is to try to do it the
54:42 other way. Right. No, that's so true. Yeah. I'm I'm the last in the line and I always say, you know, we start with at the top at
54:49 the very top and that's you guys and the bank. Yeah. The bank is the is the bank is the top the ruler.
54:54 Yeah. The bank is the ruler. And that's the other thing. People have to really ask questions when they're hiring a
55:01 mortgage person. I mean, you know, we fortunately get to work with the best. Yeah. And but not everybody's like that, you
55:08 know, and while and even in in their situation, while we know he's
55:14 Wonderful, his team could be terrible, right? And so if your processor and your
55:19 closer at your in your office are horrible to work with and are slow, then you could be as good as you want to be,
55:26 right? So they have to know the whole picture and they don't know to ask those questions, right?
55:31 So that's why what I my biggest piece of advice for buyers and sellers, talk to
55:36 somebody first. Talk to an attorney. Talk to an agent. Get these who should I talk to? You know, what should I mean?
55:42 You have in Connecticut, we have the time to own program. We have the DAP program where you're married, a married
55:49 couple, and you're buying a house for the first time or you're not married yet and you're going to get married.
55:54 Maybe both of you shouldn't be on the deed because one of you can get time to own now. And then the other one, if you
56:00 want to buy, you want to keep well after the 10 years you want to keep this one and rent it. Now the other one's
56:05 eligible to get time to like there are things if your goal is to do certain things talk to somebody first before you
56:12 get into it. It really would help tremendously. Right. Right. I think that's such a good
56:17 point because I think and nobody does. Nobody does. And by the way, when I went to buy a house, I didn't either. I didn't either. So I just kind of went out and just
56:24 started going to open houses and meeting people. And I even what I do, I would not go unrepresented ever, right? Because
56:30 again, I know you guys do so much more than we see and know so much more than
56:36 we do because what you do is different. I had a colleague represent me when I bought my house. Yeah. Because you you know even you want
56:44 someone who has expertise and a little bit of arms length too because when you're talking about your own money,
56:49 it's it's so that is a perfect
56:54 it's so personal to you when you don't have that extra layer of protection or help when you are
57:01 negotiating. You're taking everything personally even though it's not. How could you not? and you can't see past
57:07 the this is the way to go or this isn't the way to go. It's really foggy even when you even as a realer and I know realtors who buy and
57:14 sell all the live long day and and they're great at it. Um I just found that for me I I needed another person to
57:21 just kind of just shadow and just kind of point me in different directions because you do get a little delirious and you
57:27 you you're under the pressure of timeline and you're under the pressure of a contract which sounds really daunting. When you've signed a contract
57:33 with someone that sounds heavy, you know, even though it isn't really, you got to adhere to everything and you want
57:40 to make sure everything's on the up and up and you're checking your boxes and they're checking their boxes. Yeah. And you could be focused on one
57:46 thing and something else falls to the fall because you're not paying attention to that and that's why
57:51 you need the agent behind you going do the inspection like this guy, right? Yeah. Reading your inspection
57:56 report on your own house is a whole other level of It really is nightmare. And then when you get the
58:03 clients on my end that say, "We got our inspection. Can you read it?" Yes. We got our appraisal. Can you read
58:08 it? Yes. I mean, we don't normally do that, but you know, it depends on who it is. Yes, I'll do it. But again,
58:14 that's not my job. I can't. And I don't mean it like that. It's not my job. I'm not going to do it. I mean it like I
58:19 I'll read it, but you're only going to get my knowledge on the home own, you
58:24 know, the inspection level. I don't know anything about boilers except for what I know, you know, in my own house that
58:29 everything's different. I can't look at that and tell you you shouldn't buy that. And I wouldn't anyway,
58:35 right? Because you know how that goes. I mean, don't get me wrong, if I see something, there are things that are and
58:41 I say, "Yeah." Yeah. I mean, I if I went in there with like a, you know, a hammer and was like, "Tink tink tink tank." That's about as
58:47 good as you're going to get from me on these, you know, appliances. I'm not an HVAC person. And I never want to blow up the deal for
58:52 you guys or anybody, right? I mean, I did one time have a client who was and she wasn't even I was helping another
58:58 attorney and she was using a mortgage broker in New York. So, I'm happy to I don't
59:03 remember the name, but it was terrible. And she was clear to close and when they
59:09 sent she sent me the CD cuz I don't see that closing disclosure until the end.
59:14 And so, a lot of people don't know that either. They think that I see all these numbers. I see our numbers because we
59:20 have to give you we have to give the lender a pre CD, but it has our numbers on it, right? I don't see the lender's numbers. So,
59:26 she was clear to close and she gets the CD to sign and she calls me and says, "I don't really understand some of this. Can I send it to you?" So, she sends it
59:32 to me. They were charging her an $18,000 broker fee. And I said to her,
59:38 "Realer broker, mortgage mortgage broker. Mortgage broker." And I said to her, "What is that?" And
59:44 she goes, I said, "Is that like to buy points?" No. So I said, "Okay, do you
59:49 trust me?" And she says, "Yes." I mean, she doesn't know me to, you know, except for this month of time she's been
59:55 working with me. I said, "I'm going to try something and I'm just going to ask you to bear with me." Okay. So I called
1:00:01 one of my friends and I said, "Could you look at this because I think there's something wrong here and I don't see how this can fly." And she looked at it and
1:00:07 she said, "That is not going to pass the whatever test. I forget what it was." And I said, "Can you this clear to close
1:00:15 and we're supposed to close?" This was maybe a Thursday and we were supposed to close the following Monday or Tuesday, I think.
1:00:21 I said, "Can you look at this and can you take this over and get this closed in a week or two at the most?" And she
1:00:26 said, "Absolutely." And I said, "All right." So, I now went back to this buyer and said, "Listen, I'm going to tell you to switch to this lender. You
1:00:33 got to trust me and I'm going to save you. We're going to save you money." $18,000. We saved her $10,000.
1:00:39 Wow. overall because you know things were a little different in other ways but and but it wasn't different ways that there were more lender costs or
1:00:45 anything like that but she saved $10,000. She thinks we walk on water and I don't I don't need that obviously but I just
1:00:52 was I could sleep at night because I could and oh did I screamed at from this
1:00:57 loan officer Staten Island. I'm like my whole family lives there. [laughter] Right. Right. Right. It just
1:01:04 those are the things when you don't have representation and and if it's something that has to do with what you guys when
1:01:12 you don't have representation who does the disclosures that's my next question to you disclosures. I would love to talk about
1:01:18 disclosures. Oh that's a it's all changing. It's all changing and it's all kind of you know you used to
1:01:25 what be able to sign I don't want to sign it. I'll pay $500 at closing. You can't do that anymore.
1:01:30 No. Even with the smoke detectors, you can't do that anymore. The only people I know who did that were attorneys. The only clients of mine who
1:01:36 ever did that $500 out were attorneys because maybe they saw something litigious that I couldn't see.
1:01:42 Well, I think that the theory is whether you know or not, if you mistakenly say,
1:01:48 "I don't know," and there's a problem, you run the risk of being sued. But again, we go back to that conversation
1:01:53 where I said before, you have to prove that they knew. You have to prove that they knew. You can never prove what's in somebody's
1:02:00 head or what they saw or what they Right. I get that. You know, I even had one client where there was a water stain.
1:02:05 They're like, "Oh, it could prove that they they knew there was water here because there's a water stain." Okay. Well, how do you know they saw it?
1:02:11 Right. It's true. What if there was a dresser there or a box, you know? Yes. I know it sounds stupid, but that's what
1:02:18 it comes down to. So, I think an attorney wouldn't fill them out thinking they're they could misconrue something
1:02:23 and I get sued somewhere down the line. Makes sense. But you can't do that anymore. No. Yeah. Only if you're in an estate.
1:02:30 An estate. Oh, an estate doesn't have disclosures. Right. Do that. Yeah. Because they never live there. Yeah. So, how can they
1:02:35 potentially, right? Yeah. Right. Um, so I have some rapid fire questions here.
1:02:40 Oh gosh. I know. I put you answered a lot of these actually. So, um, okay. My first
1:02:46 question, and you tell me what you think is. I think I know what you're going to say to most of these. Okay. Okay. The first one, um, in a deal, a
1:02:53 seller rent back after closing, good or bad? depends on the situation.
1:02:58 As long as everybody knows going in that that's what they're dealing with, I don't see a problem with that. Okay?
1:03:04 As long as they do, you do all the normal things. You do a hold over agreement. You get everybody to agree on the rent. You hold an escrow so that
1:03:10 when they're out, I always say, and there are people who disagree. They should do a walkthrough. The buyer
1:03:16 should do a walk through while the on the closing date even though the people are still there. And then you do another
1:03:21 walk through when they're out. Double walkthrough. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Um, you kind of answered
1:03:27 this, but what is scarier for you, an unrepresented buyer or an unrepresented seller?
1:03:32 The buyer. The buyer. The buyer. Yeah. Yeah. Um, pre-inspection or inspection
1:03:38 contingency? Inspection contingency. And And you, when people say they do the pre-inspection, I always say, "But you
1:03:44 didn't." Yeah. But you didn't. And I will tell you this, if you put on the contract that you are doing the inspection
1:03:50 for formational purposes only, that does not mean that you can't ask for them to
1:03:56 fix something, that's what it means, right? But if you do an inspection and you find
1:04:01 a radon issue, that's a health and you it doesn't it doesn't stop you from asking for a
1:04:07 credit, right? So don't ever be afraid of that. And also, if you do an inspection for I did
1:04:13 go to court over this. If you do an inspection for formational purposes only and then you want to back out, you are
1:04:19 entitled to your deposit back. Oh. Uhhuh. I had a seller keep my client Well, it
1:04:24 wasn't I did not represent the client when they went through this process. They then came to me and said, "Can you
1:04:31 help me get my deposit back?" And I said, "I don't do that. I don't go to court. I'm not a litigator. Like, you need somebody else." the gentleman did
1:04:38 not have the money to go to hire an attorney and unfortunately didn't speak English very well. And so
1:04:45 they tugged on my heartstrings and I said, "Okay, fine." Right. Right. Um so we went to court and the seller
1:04:52 was trying to keep the deposit because he said, "You can't back out for the inspection when you said it was
1:04:57 for formational purposes only." And I said, "Absolutely. That's not accurate. It says that. That just means they're
1:05:02 not going to ask you for something." Right. It's still a contingency. Absolutely. And I won. We won on that,
1:05:08 but we lost because the attorney, original attorney who terminated the contract did not terminate properly. So
1:05:15 because of that, the judge let the seller keep the deposit. uh which in
1:05:20 your realtor contract it says and I'm sure this will change at some point the only way to terminate the contract is by
1:05:28 terminating in writing obviously but it has to be faxed hand delivered or
1:05:34 certified mail. You cannot email it. You cannot email it. So that's what the attorney did. They emailed the termination and that's how
1:05:41 so it's like a technicality almost. I was so mad. I'm like I won. I don't even do this. And I won and then I lost.
1:05:47 So is Oh my god. I like didn't get his money back. Anyway, what do you think of people who before I go back to rapid fire, what do you think
1:05:54 of people who do um inspection for health, safety, and structural? Same
1:06:00 thing. Same thing. Yeah. And you should just basically saying, "I won't nitpick. I'm not going to come after you over the lock on the back door." Exactly. Yeah.
1:06:06 Yeah. But if there's a structural problem, you're not going forward. No. Exactly. Or you're going to ask And also, they now have to disclose it. If
1:06:13 you find something and you say, "I want you to pay for it." And they say, "No, we won't." And the deal falls apart, they now have
1:06:18 to disclose it or address it or do either or. And that's the winning argument because when you get to that point, I
1:06:26 unfortunately I just had this and the seller really just didn't care and said, "I don't care. Go away." Right? They said, I said, if you if we
1:06:34 walk away because of this and you now put it on the market, you have to disclose this and you're going to have this problem with any other the septic
1:06:41 system was 50 years old, right? There's no other buyer that's going to say, "Okay." And Right. You know, unless they're going to
1:06:47 demolish the house and start over, but that's not what this house was. So, Right. Right. Um, what is harder for you, three
1:06:55 siblings selling mom's house or three partners selling an investment property?
1:07:01 Three siblings. Three. There's always going to be one sibling that does not budge. And I just had
1:07:06 that, too. Oh, really? When you sell property, fixtures stay.
1:07:14 Bathroom mirrors are considered a fixture. This family
1:07:20 said, "We're taking the bathroom mirror because it's not a mirror. It's a piece of art." Okay. But it's a mirror in the
1:07:28 bathroom and it's fixed to the wall. They this one sibling would not budge
1:07:34 on like a $50 mirror. And at the end of the day, I said it's a $150 credit at the most. Like they
1:07:40 wouldn't even give the credit. And unfortunately, my buyers wouldn't let me
1:07:45 keep going because they really wanted the house. So, I had to say, "Okay." But yeah. Right. Right.
1:07:50 So, siblings siblings are the hardest. Yeah. It's an emotional time. Absolutely. And that's the other piece.
1:07:57 Um, you kind of covered this, but what do you wish real estate agents would
1:08:02 stop doing? H not filling in all the details and not
1:08:10 communicating all of the details to us. Whether that's your commission, whether
1:08:15 that's tenants, whether that's the buyer needs to or the seller needs to stay. I can't tell you how many things come up
1:08:22 and we're like, "What? The mirror staying? Nobody told us. Nobody told you. Yeah. Right.
1:08:27 And and the other attorney agrees. It's usually neither one of us knew. It's not like they told their attorney or that,
1:08:33 you know, this the listing agent told her attorney and the selling agent didn't tell me. It's usually on both
1:08:38 sides. Fair. Fair. That's fair. Um flipping the switch a little bit. This is my last question. Um what's one thing you wish
1:08:45 attorneys would stop doing? Mortgage contingency dates.
1:08:50 Oh, I hate them. meaning at the end of the day when you're it's
1:08:57 probably not you have to have a timeline though don't you think I think we should have a contingency for mortgages obviously but it should not be
1:09:03 I mean Fairfield County does it different than everybody else to me in Fairfield County what is the point of a
1:09:09 mortgage contingency date because when I'm a buyer I am going to extend that mortgage contingency date until I have a
1:09:16 clear to close because I know that's the only way I can protect my client's deposit right so the point of entering into a contract
1:09:22 in real estate, everybody has some risk, but the buyers never really do because and not that I say not that I'm saying
1:09:28 they should, right? But why do we even do it then? You know, there's got to be a better way. So, what end? So, here, if
1:09:34 I'm a buyer and I missed my mortgage contingency date, if I send the seller's
1:09:40 attorney a mortgage contingency in inspection extension a week later and
1:09:45 say, "Oh, I forgot and I missed it, but I'm sending it now." And we go to court over that, I'll win,
1:09:50 right? because I have to give it in timely notice. I mean, it probably not going to be easy for me to win, but I'll
1:09:56 win. So, if I send it the next day, you have to take it or terminate, right? And that's the hard part. I'm dealing
1:10:02 with that right now where my sellers may have to be faced with another extension
1:10:08 contingency and they're going to blow a gasket. And the agent says, "Can you push back?" Pushing back is terminating.
1:10:14 There's no other option, right? So if you're not going to if buyers and sellers don't have the same weight of risk, then why do we have it?
1:10:21 There's got to be a better way. So it doesn't have to go in the offer. You're saying like it should has to be it just to hold their feet to the fire,
1:10:28 right? Mhm. There should be more transparency when it comes to that. And
1:10:33 that's the other problem. When I'm asked for an extension and I say, "Okay, well tell me what's on outstanding on your
1:10:38 mortgage so that I can make the proper determination with my client." I never get an answer, right? And so now I'm trying to explain
1:10:45 something to a client that I can't because I don't know what's going on. Right. I mean, when you have good attorneys,
1:10:50 you don't have that problem. But sometimes, even good attorneys, you don't get that because they're just busy. You don't have time for that.
1:10:56 Yeah. So, it becomes more time consuming and more of a headache than I think it really helps, right? And at the end of
1:11:02 the day, I tell my clients whether you're ready to go or not, I'm still going to extend because you run the risk
1:11:09 of all right, you're there and you release that contingency, but you have 3 weeks till you close. Well, what if you
1:11:14 get in an accident and you you're in a coma? You can still you're going to be
1:11:19 alive and you're going to be fine, but you're going to lose your job. Well, you're not going to get a mortgage now and now you just lost your deposit
1:11:24 because you got in a car accident. So, I extend for those reasons, too. Right. Right.
1:11:30 So, yeah. And then how does that ever make it fair to the seller? Right. That's a good point. That's a
1:11:35 good point. Again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have we shouldn't have, you know, it
1:11:41 should just be if it's there to protect everybody. It's really only protecting the buyer. Right. Right. Right. That's true. That's
1:11:48 so true. That's so true. If you're the seller, the only option is to terminate and then you got to start over again. And who wants to do that all
1:11:54 over again? Right. And they probably by that stage they've already kind of moved on emotionally and
1:12:00 which is why it's a non-issue sometimes because it just the sellers just say yes
1:12:05 and that's why it never changes. Right. Right. Yeah. Good point. Um Rosemary, this is
1:12:11 awesome. Thank you so much for coming. I feel like I've learned a lot. I always learn a lot from you, but I feel like I
1:12:16 learned a lot. On probate, meaning probate and real estate. Probate. Yes, we should
1:12:21 because that's that's a big one. People don't understand the timelines and why sometimes it could get done in two weeks
1:12:27 and why it takes two months sometimes. I've had one that was a year and a half. I mean, that buyer stuck in there for a
1:12:34 year and a half. I would not have stuck in there. Right. Right. That's something that people whenever I have an estate that
1:12:39 I'm handling, people always say to me, where are they in the process? How quickly will they be able to close?
1:12:44 Those are the main questions they ask. And a lot of times you don't know the answer to that. And not because you don't know or you're not educated. You
1:12:52 don't know if they had a will, if they didn't have a will, if they had a trust. You don't. And those details mean
1:12:57 everything. Right. Right. We'll have to do a part two on this. I like that. We'll tee it up. Rosemary, can you tell
1:13:03 everyone where they can find you? Yes, you can find me at BBB Real Estate Attorneys in Stratford. 203-562900.
1:13:13 Thank you so much for coming. I appreciate it. And we'll see you soon. Yes. Thank you so much.
1:13:19 Have a great day. Have a great day.